boy scouts lost in grand canyon 199611 Mar boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996
Drape cool rags all over body and drink lots of water. The main entrance is located at the central rotunda. All Rights Reserved, The 2023 Utah Legislature has wrapped. The Boy Scouts of America's Grand Canyon Council (GCC), an independent non-profit organization chartered by the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) in Arizona, is excited to announce its continued partnership with Barrett-Jackson Collector Car Auctions. David Phillips passed out less then a quarter-mile from the Colorado River. "The scariest part was when you couldn't hear them and didn't know what they wanted you to do," Muench said. Once clear of the water, however, they faced a nearly sheer cliff and the water was still rising. David passed away from heat exhaustion. Robin is continuing the tradition. But they were airlifted out the next day and returned home with heavy hearts. PHOENIX, ARIZ. A 15-year-old boy died when he and a group of Boy Scouts ran out of water while hiking in intense heat in the Grand Canyon, park officials said Friday. 457 were here. The troop left from the North Rim and was headed to the river, not using a trail and without the proper permits. Heres what you need to know, Japanese official denies Lee statement on commitment to expedite release of Lt. Ridge Alkonis, Utah Legislature finalizes record $29B budget. Fifteen-year-old David Phillips had spent six months planning a hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon with his Boy Scout troop. Her work has also appeared in Business Insider, Parents magazine, CreakyJoints, and the Baltimore Sun. by joebartels Mar 09 2011 12:51 pm, Post up." The plane penetrated 20 feet into the sheer wall of a towering canyon butte, annihilating the aircraft and 58 passengers and crew members. Literally and figuratively, it's Arizona's biggest attraction. DATE: Friday to Sunday, September 24 - 26, 2021 COST: $12.00 per scout or adult. Are You New to Scouting or New to Your Scouting Position? At around 8 am on Friday, August 20, 2004, 12-year-old Garrett Bardsley, and his father, Kevin, got up early whilst on a Boy Scout camping trip. Love that show, and the books "over the edge" and "off the wall"! Included in the group was an adult acquaintance of one of the ward members who was familiar with the Grand Canyon area, said Campbell. I remember that. For now anyways. La Noue - 13 years old Erected 2008 by Troop 301 and Venture Crew 301. Heat exhaust was sinking in. 1996-2023 WGBH Educational Foundation . boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. They found a notch in the cliff and their American Indian rescuers rigged ropes up to the top. boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. post oak toyota commercial actors . Heres what you need to know, Japanese official denies Lee statement on commitment to expedite release of Lt. Ridge Alkonis, Utah Legislature finalizes record $29B budget. Theresa is also the author of the picture book series SCOUT MOORE, JUNIOR RANGER (Grand Canyon Conservancy), featuring the bright, curious, outdoor-loving Scout who motivates young readers to explore our national parks and nature for themselves. They won't see the danger, just the potential "fame". Fifteen-year-old David Phillips had spent six months planning a hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon with his Boy Scout troop. Try This Comfy Nodpod Weighted Sleep Mask, Readers Share Their Most Hilariousand InspiringSports Stories, Nick Offerman on Why You Should Get Outside More and Embrace Mother Natures Gifts, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. east anglia deanery hospitals. A new permit fee and restrictions for day hikers below the rim of Grand Canyon could "crush" travel plans for some Boy Scouts, a leader for the organization warned. This historical marker and memorial is listed in these topic lists: Disasters Notable Events. Along with Jordan Winegar and Mark Coons, the teenage survivors were identified as Andy Davis and Joel Kieper. 2023 Grand Canyon Council, Boy Scouts of America, lans to organize a Troop of Scouts and Venturers to attend the 2023. amboree at the Summit Bechtel Reserve in Beckley. In June 1996, a group of 5 teenage scouts and 3 adult guides hiked into the Grand Canyon during a heat wave; the route was an off-trail route in the vicinity of the Nankoweap Trail. Surrounded by over 5,000 acres of ponderosa pine forest, trails lead from camp to the top of the rim where Scouts can stand at the very edge of the Colorado Plateau. Phillips and his hiking party of four boys and three adult leaders began following a remote stock trail snaking down into Nankoweap - a rough wilderness area recommended only for experienced Grand Canyon hikers with excellent survival skills. The American Indians apparently noticed a slowing of the river. "The helicopters showed up, they hopped on the . A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one. This story has impacted his family ever since, as well as the people who care about them. boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. Temperatures reached 112 degrees in the area that day. Supposedly they were going for a 6-day hike, with no water sources en route. My son made it about 100 yards from the river and then dropped, says Robin. "All the Scouts lost everything," he said. Boy Scouts lost on November 15, 1958 David Greenberg - 12 years old Mike Early - 16 years old Michael J. The American Indians, who were equipped with walkie-talkies, tried to rig a rope bridge for the stranded campers, but Muench said they decided it was too risky for the kids. "He yelled and screamed and got their attention.". The main entrance is located at the central rotunda. The main entrance is located at the central rotunda. A sardonic social media account gains popularity from taking down sacred ski idols and imagining a future without snow. David and his dad spent the summer backpacking all over the High Uintas Wilderness in Utah, where snow-topped peaks reflect tower over glacier-formed lakes. Summit County, Utah. 143 likes. Drink at least a gallon a day - more during hot weather. By 1 p.m., the boys had reached the 15-mile mark and were showing signs of fatigue. This week is the centennial of Grand Canyon National Park and the sesquicentennial of John Wesley Powell's expedition down the Colorado River. The college students put some of the smaller Scouts on their shoulders, and the only camping gear they took was two backpacks that had first aid equipment. SCOUT DIES OF HEAT-RELATED ILLNESS ON HIKE IN GRAND CANYON By Staff Jun 8, 1996 0 SUBSCRIBE: $1 for 3 months A teen-age boy died in stifling heat after he and fellow Boy Scouts ran out of. But before the chopper could return for the rest of them, it was diverted to rescue others who were in a more dire situation, Muench said. That boyscout troop made tons of mistakes. They had to pull themselves up about 70 feet, Muench estimated, pulling with their arms and kicking with their feet. They headed down to a nearby lake called Cuberant 1 in the Uinta Mountains in Utah for some fishing. When Robin Phillips of Bountiful, Utah, planned a six-day hiking trip into the Grand Canyon for his troop of Boy Scouts last month, he knew the remote route would be waterless. (new Image()).src = 'https://capi.connatix.com/tr/si?token=38cf8a01-c7b4-4a61-a61b-8c0be6528f20&cid=877050e7-52c9-4c33-a20b-d8301a08f96d'; cnxps.cmd.push(function () { cnxps({ playerId: "38cf8a01-c7b4-4a61-a61b-8c0be6528f20" }).render("6ea159e3e44940909b49c98e320201e2"); }); When the boys arrived, the Colorado Rivers last rafting trip of the day was passing by. Five boys and the remaining leader, Earl Pace (Loren Pace's brother), decided to keep moving toward water, according to Campbell. Its been 21 years since the boys death, and hiking still holds a strong memory of David for his family. Muench got everyone out of the trees and they had to wade across the shallowest part of the water, which was as high as three feet deep in parts. The survivors were flown to a medical center in the south end of the canyon. Grand Canyon Council Home; Calendar; Parent Portal ; Lookup Registration An investigation is pending, but preliminary reports suggest Phillips died from heat exhaustion. When they needed to hike, they really hiked. In Scouting you'll develop new skills, try new hobbies, make friends, learn teamwork, experience. Connect with the definitive source for global and local news. It is unknown whether the outing was approved by the Great Salt Lake Council of the Boy Scouts of America. (Not to mention the bozos doing stupid stuff on Youtube.) Please enter here to gain access to the building. "They woke everybody up saying the floodwaters are coming. Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. The motive was theft he was looking for cash to fuel his drug habit, investigators said (via SNewsNet) and she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. A ranger came by Saturday and told them to move to higher ground "because floodwaters are coming," Muench said. Jason Swensen and Matthew S. Bennett, staff writers. Grand Canyon Council BSA8840 E Chaparral Rd Suite 200Scottsdale, AZ 85250(602) 955-7747. The walk in hell episode was one of the first I saw - could not BELIEVE how many stupid mistakes they made! We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), stunning photos of national parks covered in snow, Looking for Better Sleep? Muench climbed out of his tree to find out what the newest warning was. All were in good condition Friday, according to North Canyon 3rd Ward Bishop Robert H. Campbell. "You'd see boulders four-foot in diameter being carried down the stream, and whole trees.". You can find her on Instagram @marissasimonian. Why Western wildfires are becoming more destructive. "The Scouts, when they needed to do something, they did it. "Mike began to seem dizzy, we had him sit down to rest and drink water," Crompton later wrote in a police report. We were probably able to see over 100 different lakes, says Robin. Who hikes the GC during a major heat wave? If not for the lucky connection at the River, more would have had they endured yet another day without water. The entrance to the cavern was nearly inaccessible, but Kincaid was able to get in to make an incredible discovery. On Aug. 23 at approximately 4:30 a.m., the Grand Canyon Regional Communications Center received a report of two overdue hikers on the Hermit Trail within Grand Canyon National Park. [ youtube video ] [ youtube video ] like it. 24/7 coverage of breaking news and live events. Grand Canyon Council Award/Program Activity Area Award Arizona U.S. Mormon Battalion (Phoenix, Arizona) Patch All Rights Reserved, BOYS RUSHED FOR WATER IN TRY TO SAVE SCOUT, The 2023 Utah Legislature has wrapped. Published: Aug. 18, 2008, 3:59 p.m. . He propped up Phillips' body and tried to drain some of the liquid down his friend's throat. A helicopter arrived at first light Thursday to evacuate the survivors. "We were literally in the trees saying 'Our Father,'" Muench said referring to the Christian prayer. In Scouting you'll develop new skills, try new hobbies, make friends, learn teamwork, experience the outdoors, and serve your communityall . One outdoor manual describes the area the party was in as a seldom explored region recommended only for "experienced hikers with excellent wilderness and survival skills.". Uncategorized. You better get up," Muench said from Las Vegas, where the group was recuperating. You get stern warnings and information and a chance to back out gracefully. . As their Read allIn June 1996, a group of 5 teenage scouts and 3 adult guides hiked into the Grand Canyon during a heat wave; the route was an off-trail route in the vicinity of the Nankoweap Trail. David B. Phillips of Bountiful, Utah, apparently died of heat-related illnesses Wednesday as he was hiking with seven others in the canyon's back country, officials said. This cost includes charges Read More June 28, 2021 Helpful Links Dave Alexander Scout Service Center - Building Entrance. Soon the boys were alone because Earl Pace also had to stop. On February 18, 2023 Dan Becker was rescued after backpacking the Grand Canyon rim-to-rim in the snow. "It was part of their preparedness," said Muench, a dentist who has reveled in wilderness camping since his teens. To sort it out, the five boys and three leaders trekked back up to the ranger stationonly to find out it was closed. The Grand Canyon Council would like to welcome and, Geronimo Endowment Fund (GEF) Purpose: Grand Canyon Council has a strong commitment to ensure high quality camping, Video ahora disponible en espaol! The council includes six districts across the Valley: Lost Dutchman, Gila River, Central . Hello John9L. The leaders of this group and the boys have had their lives effected forever as well. The Scouts were originally founded to 'to teach patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred values' to boys. If the night was scary, the morning was worse. Welcome to the Grand Canyon Council BSA. As part. For more information, subscribe to the Jamboree Hub channel today! The survivors were flown to a medical center on the canyon's south end. "The group did have a backcountry pass, but it was issued for June 10th," said Oltrogge. If that is true, and you need 1-2 gallons a day, at 8 pounds per gallon, they would have each needed to carry 48-96 pounds of water. Robins grandfather showed the spot to his own son, who in turn introduced his son. Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with pigeons. "We got up to Josephine Saddle and. Now park and local Scout officials are trying to determine how a Bountiful varsity Scout troop's Grand Canyon excursion ended tragically. Jordan's father, Dee Winegar, and younger brother, Lonny, were also on the Grand Canyon expedition but hiked a different route, according to Gail Winegar. Heres how its spending your money, Parents know best: Rep. Burgess Owens wants to fund school choice at national level, 2023 Sterling Scholars semifinalists: Southwest Region, 2023 Sterling Scholars semifinalists: Northeast Region. For example David had a chance to say goodbye to every member of his family individually before he left. Council leaders review each request to ensure leaders are adequately prepared and review adult-to-Scout ratios. The Boy Scouts of America is one of the nations largest and most prominent values-based youth development organizations, providing programs for young people that build character. "The scariest thing at night was you could hear the trees snapping and breaking, but you couldn't see them," he said. The Boy Scouts identified more than 12,000 alleged victims in that time period, from 1944 through 2016, according to the testimony, which was publicized Tuesday by attorney Jeff Anderson, who. Oltrogge said the cause of death remained under investigation but that it appeared to be heat-related. . Please enter here to gain access to the building. I had 21 direct reports in Wisconson, Illinois and Indiana. But by the time I went to retrieve it, it changed into my neighbor's dog." See the YouTube videos. But the water kept rising and the force of it was growing even more spectacular. "This (group) was approved for their Grand Canyon trip," said Latimer. Dave Alexander Scout Service Center - Building Entrance. Five boys and the remaining leader, Earl Pace (Loren Pace's brother), decided to keep moving toward water, according to Campbell. Our online Scout Shop is set up and ready to receive orders We are pleased to share, Tips, Tricks, and Hacks to Grow Your Pack! (If youre active, keep an eye out for symptoms of dehydration, too.) Two scouts from Davids troop raced to the river to get him water. What the heck is the Sonoran Avalanche Center? Turn on desktop notifications for breaking stories about interest? Toggle Navigation. Tri-state manager of commercial real estate deposit services. He incorporated the Boy Scouts of America on February 8, 1910. snow white parrot fish; beowulf's last words to wiglaf; anatomy and physiology of sensory system ppt; examples of wave interference in everyday life Sage Flat Lost Valley Scout Reservation Segment Three Day Backpack Anywhere Patch . Rescuers were still combing the vast national park for 11 campers who were either washed away, are still in the park, or have simply gone home and are unaware that people are searching for them. by autumnstars Mar 10 2011 10:52 pm, The TV series "I Shouldn't Be Alive" has covered several situations at Grand Canyon, most recently a solo rafter and another dramatization of Linda Fortney who survived a wrong turn while hiking toward Supai (beginning on Page 79 of 'Death in the Canyon' first edition), "I shot a werewolf once. Call 800-346-6277 for details. A significant historical month for this entry is November . To get a picture of the canyon's significance, ASU Now collected trail tales and river reports Aug. 19, 2008 — -- When the six Boy Scouts from suburban Maplewood, N.J., went camping in the Grand Canyon, they expected an adventure they would long talk about, but they did not expect to be clinging to treetops and praying to survive a flash flood. Ward members call Phillips a "good kid" who loved the outdoors and excelled in Scouting and diving. No one else in the group was injured. Feb 27, 2023 The Boy Scouts Grand Canyon Council Inc. CEO Andy Price grew up fly fishing and knot tying. Instead, they attempted the primitive Saddle Mountain Pass to Little Nankoweap route. The Boy Scouts of America's Grand Canyon Council (GCC), an independent nonprofit organization chartered by the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) in Ariz., is celebrating an amazing milestone - 100 . Guides: 21 | Official Routes: 51. Kincaid discovered strange caverns during an expedition directed by Smithsonian anthropologist S.A. Jordan. Home; My Story; Courses. Founded in 1910, over the years the Boy Scouts of America has expanded to include the involvement of up to 2.3 million youth, both girls as well as boys, and is coordinated with the assistance of 900,000 adult volunteers. titration of phosphoric acid with naoh lab report. The council is served by the Order of the Arrow - Wipala Wiki Lodge. "We had become an island. Jul 2001 - Jan 20042 years 7 months. The path was challenging, and temperatures soared near 112 degrees, according to park spokeswoman Maureen Oltrogge. In June 1996, a group of 5 teenage scouts and 3 adult guides hiked into the Grand Canyon during a heat wave; the route was an off-trail route in the vicinity of the Nankoweap Trail. Scouts, youth groups and other non-profit organizations with 10 or more participants are eligible for 10-30% off selected adventures. gnrfdmgr@gcnr.com. District reservations and council events may be made 18 months in advance. The expedition was reportedly approved both by Scout and church leaders from the Bountiful Utah North Canyon Stake. Please do not enter the door under the Scout Service Center sign. The group also submitted an outing request with the Great Salt Lake Council of the Boy Scouts of America on June 1, according to council spokesman Marty Latimer. A group of Boy Scouts from Maplewood on a backpacking and rafting trip near the Grand Canyon were evacuated by helicopter Sunday after an earthen dam failed and flood waters threatened their campsite. The Grand Canyon council oversees 390 different units across Arizona serving 10,560 youth, Price said. On Saturday, a 16-year-old boy went for a hike in Picacho Peak State Park with his Boy Scout troop, according to AZ Central. But be warned, the video is broken up into five parts and its roughly 43 minutes long. You'll take the elevator to the second floor and then turn right for our office suite. There was water to the right and left of us.". As luck would have it, the riders were paramedics. In the background, someone yelled, "Up . And most importantly, it's the opportunity to instill a lifelong love of the outdoors in kids. We recommend our users to update the browser. A hike in a remote area of Grand Canyon National Park claimed the life of a Bountiful teen after his varsity Scout group reportedly ran out of water. See Also. . One of the leaders, Guy Davis, believed to be in his 40s, couldn't continue, said the North Canyon 3rd Ward Bishop Robert H. Campbell. An 18-year-old Havasupai man named Randy Redtail Wescogame was charged with her murder. They know we're not in the suburbs camping in Memorial Park," he said referring to mowed field in the middle of Maplewood. Our valiant and courageous scout was called to serve in a very special mission on June 5, 1996 while hiking in the Grand Canyon. Old Capitol District Grand Canyon Council, BSA. No one could have known it would end in tragedy. Soon the boys were alone because Earl Pace also had to stop. Then Coons took his turn to fill the bottle. "In the morning, where we had been was totally washed out," Muench said. I had no idea this episode was about people that I knew when I started watching while cleaning my kitchen. It was definitely overly dramatic but was still a good watch. It was one of the deadliest days of weather in Utah's history.. They packed up and moved a bit higher. Don't depend on natural sources along the trail; you may be surprised. Copyright 2023 Deseret News Publishing Company. Topics. Inside you will find stairs and an elevator that will take you up to our suite, #200. The group apparently did not have a valid pass to hike in the area, which is not maintained by the Park Service. That's not entirely the end of the story. If not for the lucky connection at the River, more would have had they endured yet another day without water. "(Mark) ran down to the river and saw a raft," said Kim Coons, while recalling details of a phone conversation with her son the day after Phillips' death Wednesday. Aug. 19, 2008 -- When the six Boy Scouts from suburban Maplewood, N.J., went camping in the Grand Canyon, they expected an adventure they would long talk about, but they did not expect to be clinging to treetops and praying to survive a flash flood. The video has the adult 'leader' on screen---how this guy had the gall to even present himself without guilt is amazing---his need for fame overwhelmed his shame---if he had any. Colin even called his mother to describe the helicopter lift as "so cool." boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. house for rent waldport oregon; is thanos a villain or anti hero; Toggle navigation. The Scout group didn't take Nankoweap Trail near Point Imperial---they went over the edge on a complete backcountry route with no distinct trail. At some point, the party ran out of water Wednesday while trying to reach the Colorado River, said Oltrogge. Another child is still missing. The main entrance is located at the central rotunda. We are an independent nonprofit organization chartered bythe Boy Scouts of America to deliver youth programs throughout most of central and northern Arizona. The boy was identified by the Coconino County sheriffs office today as David B. Phillips of Bountiful, Utah. It was the worst U.S. aviation disaster up to that time: 10:31 a.m., June 30, 1956. Loren Pace, another leader and experienced Grand Canyon hiker, reportedly dropped out a short time later. Our lodge makes up one-fourth of Section W-6W, and is apart of the Western Region. One of the rafters was an emergency medical technician and rushed to help Phillips. Boy Scouts (O41) Child Abuse, Prevention of (I72) IRS filing requirement. We are an independent nonprofit organization chartered by the Boy Scouts of America to deliver youth programs throughout most of central and northern Arizona. But, you do still get the permit if that's what you want. Nankoweap Trail is hard enough--one of the toughest in the Canyon---but at least the Scouts would have hit water at Nankoweap Creek a little over 11 miles down. The pack trail is not maintained, which means park workers do not hike the trail and clear debris such as fallen rocks. His 14-year-old friend, Jordan Winegar, rushed on to fill a 2-liter soda bottle while another boy, Mark Coons, stayed behind.Winegar soon returned, his bottle filled with muddy river water. "He said there was a threat of a washout.". Price, who first joined the Grand Canyon Council in 2019 after relocating from. I managed the budgets, hiring, firing . On Saturday, Gallas and his 23-year-old son, Scotty Jr., went to Madera Canyon, then, like six Boy Scouts more than 50 years ago, they headed up the mountain. Cameron Evans, a junior at Woods Cross High School and swim teammate of Phillips, said he was active in the LDS seminary program and a lot of fun to be around. It was the beginning of a long, frightening night. Please do not enter the door under the Scout Service Center sign. boy scouts lost in grand canyon 1996. post oak toyota commercial actors . This organization is required to file an IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ. The EMT from the raft cared for several survivors along the trail, and the river guide was able to contact a commercial plane flying overhead that helped notify park search and rescue crews, said a spokeswoman. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Later, two of the Scouts reportedly opted to wait on the trail while David Phillips, Mark Coons and Jordan Winegar hiked to the river. No one could have known it would end in tragedy. Here's the original newspaper report of the death of the boy scout in the Canyon: I think the permit policy seems pretty reasonable. When they reached the top of the peak, the boy, who has been identified as high school student Josh Michael White, began to demonstrate signs of extreme dehydration. The group did not have a valid permit to hike the rough trail, which runs along the canyon's North Rim to the Colorado River, park spokeswoman Mallory Smith said. By Wednesday afternoon, the group's water bottles were dry and fatigue had set in. But maps and. On July 1, Boy Scouts of America proposed an $850 million settlement with tens of thousands of those complainants, marking the highest payout in a child sexual abuse case in U.S. history. Ross D. Franklin/AP Photo. - Wear light-colored, long-sleeved shirts and long pants. - Always hike with an experienced guide familiar with the area. The guide radioed a commercial airplane flying overhead, which then notified Los Angeles International Airport about Phillips' condition, said Oltrogge. Legal name of organization: Grand Canyon Council, Inc. The photo Robin took of Christmas Meadows in the High Uintas won the Readers Digest From Sea to Shining Sea photo contest and appeared on the July/August 2017 magazine cover. List of council camps (Boy Scouts of America) - Wikipedia List of council camps (Boy Scouts of America) Contents 1 Active Camps 1.1 Alabama 1.2 Alaska 1.3 Arizona 1.4 Arkansas 1.5 California 1.6 Colorado 1.7 Connecticut 1.8 Delaware 1.9 Florida 1.10 Georgia 1.11 Hawaii 1.12 Idaho 1.13 Illinois 1.14 Indiana 1.15 Iowa 1.16 Kansas 1.17 Kentucky As their water runs out and the older members collapse in exhaustion, 3 of the teenagers set out on their own to reach the Colorado River. EIN for payable organization: 86-0101295 Close. D. Schruete. North Rim Lodge. For more information, subscribe to the Jamboree Hub channel today! He also said it was exciting to watch Phillips dive. This is the same year as the first Boy Scout Council in Arizona was formed with the Prescott Council. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. They rushed to give David first aid before going for help. For the Jersey scouts, however, the flood was a test of their motto to "Be Prepared." (Find more stunning photos of national parks covered in snow. "This is one of risks when you go into the wilderness. - Pack all your water in. The property slogan for years was "God lives in heaven, but he vacations. Please enter here to gain access to the building. Heres how its spending your money, Parents know best: Rep. Burgess Owens wants to fund school choice at national level, 2023 Sterling Scholars semifinalists: Southwest Region, 2023 Sterling Scholars semifinalists: Northeast Region. The death of the boy scout was a result of a series of horrible errors---it's a wonder they all didn't die.
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